Discussions on Labyrinth (1986)

Would it have been the same if it wasn't a musical and Bowie didn't sing his songs? He got a lot of crap from music critics and his older fans for writing the songs for Labyrinth. They thought the songs were terrible.
Also, it didn't have to be a musical, if they'd wanted to they could've still had Bowie without the songs and just have a straight fantasy movie. Would it have worked?

The music definitly helps a lot, i mean the whole purpose of the project was primarly based around music anyway- that was Jim Henson's initial idea. I like the story concept anyway, but i think the music definitly adds to the movie to set it apart from other fantasy films, it becomes unique for that purpose alone. Also the music, in particular the dialogue, really adds an extra dimension as well as more depth to the characters. For example the song "As The World Falls Down" is Jareth showing his romantic side and exposing his true inner feelings to Sarah which is probably more effective in music form then it would be in spoken dialogue (and indeed it becomes more magical when sung), and "Within You" perfectly shows the tragic angst that Jareth is going through which again is more effective as a song then it would be if he said it directly to Sarah. Of course he would never say any of these things to Sarah directly anyway so the songs are a way for us to understand Jareth as a deeper, more complex character- and it certianly breaks the initial preconception of him being a typical "villian", which of course he's not; and it's only through the songs that we really understand this. It's a fantasy "girl coming of age" Alice in Wonderland/Wizard of Oz journey film first and foremost but i think personally with the music it turns into a sort of pseudo-romance, especially with Bowie singing the latter songs in the film, more Phantom of the Opera ish. Jareth is definitly that type of character similar to Erik- more a tragic and misunderstood soul than a true-blue villian.

To be honest I don't even know if Sarah actually hears what Jareth is saying through his songs, maybe it's for the audience alone as she doesn't seem to be reacting to his words, but still it's great to have them in there as it shows us more to the characters that we wouldn't have got to see without the songs. Coincidently it wasn't the fantasy that attracted me to the film at first, nor the monsters or the goblins or the action (which, as a little boy, would have been the first thing to grab my attention and get me to watch it) but it was in fact the music itself that struck me. As soon as "Underground" played at the start it was hard for me not to look away as the music is wonderful and the lyrics really interesting. I didn't know Bowie got slated for his music here as i think it's a great soundtrack. The style is different from what wer'e used to hearing from him but still i think it's brilliant- with "As The World Falls Down" single-handedly being one of the best romantic ballads i've ever heard.

Of course the whole movie with music adds to that 80s MTV pop music charm as well, which is another reason why it's so popular with people. It's definitly a film of the era and the contemporary pop music (instead of full blown songs typical of most musicals) added a spin on the traditional fantasy film at the time. It's an old skool fantasy blended with modern day humour, dialogue, wit and music. I thought it was a Disney type movie at first- clean cut and traditional with nothing offensive- and then i hear the goblins talking modern day slang, saying words like "crap" (which back then for me was quite something as i was bought up watching very restricted material and hearing them swear like that was like, woah) and seeing Hoggle pissing in a pond and killing fairies and all of a sudden it's in a league of it's own- its traditional and modren, and takes the piss out of it's own genre at the same time. It's a fusion of old and new and i love it.

What about Bowie's acting? He has been slated for it in the past and when this came out, not many people thought he'd done particularly well. I for one think he is a good actor, not excellent, but he can act. And what more could one want? It's still a children's film, albeit with adult undertones.

I thought his acting was great to be honest, even as a child i was able to pick up the subtle details of his performance- his dry wit, his tounge-in-cheek humour, his over-possesive controlling side, his over-bearing seductive side, a tragic romantic, a strutting "rock star rebel" (especially with his cane that looks suspiciosly like a microphone) and as a frankly bored young man just putting on the villian act to pass the time (like he was only living up to his role as the bad guy as that was his duty, perfectly explained by Bowie in the making-of documentary where he says that he assumed Jareth reluctantly took on the job as Goblin King, and he would rather be in Soho or something having a drink and a laugh). And it's true that he rarely shows any expression for his emotions but this is what i think is truly classy about his performance- especially in the ballroom sequence where he instinctly wants to move closer to Sarah despite the whispered warnings by other jealous women there that forbid him to go- yet he looks at them and then looks at Sarah even more longinlgy and then goes and takes her by the hand, to the disaproval of everyone. I managed to catch this only becuase i used to watch the film so much everyday, it's a very deep performance but it's done very subtley and you have to focus on it to pick it up. If you've ever read artist Brian Froud's "Goblins of Labyrinth" artbook he goes into some detail about how he designed Jareth as a character and describes him as a sort of scarlett pimpernel Wuthering Heights-type "Lord of the Manor". I'd be happy to write the excerpt out for you if you haven't got the book.

And regarding his songs for the film, i completly agree with you. Each song perfectly encapsulates either the characters (the Fireys with Chilly Down), the scenario or both (as i explained in another thread, As The World Falls Down and Within You were a way to let Jareth let out his angst and inner feelings towards Sarah in a way he wouldn't be able to do in normal dialogue). "Magic Dance" is just a playful, fun-filled catchy tune which encompasses the relativly "simple" point of the entire film as a way to market it easily- a family friendly film for everyone to get up, dance to and enjoy. "Underground" however is a song which harbours the deeper meaning of the film, explaining what it's really all about for those who want to study it and learn from it's many morals and understand what Henson and Bowie really wanted to say- and that's all about Sarah (as well as us), learning and growing through metaphors and interpretations of journeys, revelations, sacrifices and redemptions regarding life itself.

So all in all every song has something relavent to say about the film, it's characters and to us in general regarding Henson's philosophy- and i find that not only intriguing but also fascinating in it's detail. I too hope that Bowie and Connelley aren't embarrased by the film though it has been well documented that Jennifer doesn't like talking about it, i remember she was on Tonight with Johnathaon Ross a few years ago and Ross bought the film up (as he would as he's a fan of it, showing a massive image of Jareth and Sarah on the screen) and Jennifer blushed, smiled and looked away in embarassment and asked if they move away from the subject as quickly as possible.

I'll leave you with some choice quotes from Jim Henson himself which i believe are completly relavant to what he was trying to say with Labyrinth, and with life in general:

"I believe that life is basically a process of growth - that we go through many lives, choosing situations and problems that we will learn through. I think there are lots of ways of leading very good lives and growing spiritually, and this process of growth goes on whether we believe in it or not."

"Life's like a movie, write your own ending. Keep believing, keep pretending."

"As children, we all live in a world of imagination and fantasy. And for some of us, that world of make-believe contiunes into adulthood"

top 10s....(Action, Horror)

I was bored, so here for you guys at home are two lists of my top 10 action films and top 10 horror movies; and to make it even more indecisive on my part they are in no real order of preference either, so hah!

My Top 10 favourite Action films:

#1 Aliens (1986, dir. James Cameron)What can i say other than this film is the epitome of the word "masterpiece". Put simply: Perfect. 10/10

#2 The Terminator (1984, dir. James Cameron)

I actually love this movie more than it's sequel. It's darker, grittier and more violent in tone than it's sequel, and i actually love the cheaper budget and SFX more (I'm an old-skool effects guy at heart!).

#3 Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991. dir. James Cameron)


Bigger and badder than it's predecessor and in short the greatest action movie of the 90s. The only other film which comes even close to taking it's crown was The Matrix, though i feel that T2 is still the king of that generation, bar none. A masterpiece, though I prefer the first one more as stated above.

#4 Commando (1985, dir. Mark L Lester)

An 80s classic make no mistake- fun non-stop action from the start. This film I feel encompasses everything about the genre and the decade. The simple plot, the outrageous violence, the hilarious one-liners- everything in this film screams classic- it's impossible not to be entertained. Inspired so much, including the video game Contra. The film is entertaining now and a classic as they just don't make action films as light-hearted and fun as this anymore. Much imitated but never bettered!

#5 Predator (1987, dir. John McTiernan)

I see this movie more of a sci-fi horror film more than an action film, however the action in the film is spectacular and has to be mentioned- it's a B-movie executed with AAA class.

#7 Rambo: First Blood Part II (1985, dir. George P. Cosmatos)


Another 80s classic which epitomises the era beautifully. Again this film has been imitated countless times but never beaten- Stallone's Rambo was the ultimate hero of the 80s alongside Arnie. Much imitated again but never bettered. The film again inspired Contra as well as the Metal Gear Solid series. (Solid Snake was hugely inspired by both Rambo and Snake Plisskin). The film helped paved the way for 80s action cinema, if not being one of the first to do so.

#8 Robocop (1987, dir. Paul Verhoeven)

A perfect combination of styles. 80s hardcore action and sci-fi comic book and satire mixed together in one hugely entertaining and darkly comedic movie.

#10 Die Hard (1988, dir. John McTiernan)

One of the best action movies on the 80s if not THE best. It was previously my number #1 favourite film of all time, and though it isn't anymore it still features at the top of many all-time best of lists.

My top 10 favourite Horror films:

#1 Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992, dir. Francis Ford Coppola)

An all round perfect movie apart from one major flaw- Keanu Reeve's acting and accent is laughably bad.... but i can take it, it makes it into even more of a classic! Fantastic visuals, effects and costume design, brilliantly directed, amazing acting (especially from Gary Oldman who churns out in my opinion his greatest performance ever) a superb score and an awesome re-telling of the novel (which is my favourite book ever). I love this film and always will; the epitome of high Gothic horror romance.

#2 Evil Dead 2 (1987, dir. Sam Raimi)


A classic. Brilliant fun. Creative and imaginatively inventive old-skool special effects, plenty of OTT gore and some fantastic design, directing as well as being visually superb- the film is so experimental in the techniques it uses you can't help but take notice (stop motion animation, hand-drawn animation, stop motion with real people amongst a few). Very good movie and one of the best horrors of the decade, as well as I feel being Sam Raimi's best film ever.

#3 Ringu (1998, dir. Hideo Nakata)

The original Japanese version of The Ring is the one that started it all and of course it is the best version of the story as well as being vastly superior to both the American and Korean remakes. I was absolutely terrified when i first saw this in the cinema in 1998, unaware at what it was about as back then it was only released in a few small cinemas with no hype. I have never been that scared by a film since, so the movie is a pinnacle in horror for me as i don't get scared by anything yet Ringu managed to single-handedly frighten me to near death. Both movies are different executions of the source material and I enjoyed them both. I love the original more than the remake and always will because it's more quaint, quieter and definitely a lot more scarier (imo), it's also very Japanese.

Whilst not beyond nonrecognition, I felt there are some good things about the American remake which elevates it as the best remake of an Asian horror film to date (as much as I hate remakes it's not that bad). Gore Verbinski's version was obviously done to western standards which are very different to Asia, and whilst I'm not a big fan of this kind it was still a good remake, and Verbinski managed to have a long, brooding sense of constant dread throughout the picture which I admired. The only thing I didn't like was Samara's exit out of the TV which just looked too contrived, cliche, over-glossed and generic in that Hollywood way, where I felt the original was far better in it's "less is more" premise. I also felt the tape was better in the original movie than the remake where it looked like a Nine Inch Nails music video. But the other effects were really well done (the corpses) and the scares where awesome, and not cheap like what it usually done in American horror films. I also love Japanese mythology and folklore and for them to weave it into the original was brilliant because it's a different culture so it was creepy in that sense as it wasn't anything I was familiar with; I didn't get a sense of that in the American version as it was just a normal village town, something I am familiar with and nothing foreign about it.

I think the remake is a solid and really well done adaptation though but I will always prefer the original as the definitive version as it's the better movie imo and it scared the hell out of me more than the American one.

#4 Candyman (1992, dir. Bernard Rose)

Brilliantly directed and an all round well crafted film. From the imagination of Clive Barker (based on his short story "The Forbidden") the film still holds up today as a great example of a fine psychological/horror film.

#5 Hellraiser (1987, dir. Clive Barker)

A true classic of 80s horror cinema. Clive Barker once again shows us that his imagination knows no limits as he adapts and directs his short story "The Hellbound Heart" into one of the most surprisingly effective horror films of the 80s decade. The film is a pure Gothic tale which harks back to the classic age of Edgar Allan Poe- and this is where the film stands out as it is not a typical teen slasher movies full of psychotic killers which the 80s was full of but rather a tale of obsession, intrigue, madness and desire. To be honest I hated the film when I first saw it years ago; I thought it was one of the worst directed, acted and boring horror films I had ever had to endure. But after viewing it again, and consequently again and again I realised this was a different kind of horror and understood what Barker was trying to do with it. Once you get it and understand it, it really and truly is a revolutionary and highly original piece of fantasy horror fiction.

#6 The Cell (2000, dir. Tarsem Singh)


I personally think this film is very underrated, and in my eyes it's a near masterpiece of art and design. Jennifer Lopez gives a great performance but ultimately it's the directing, visuals and design which shine brilliantly. Every single frame of the mind sequences is a work of stunning art in my view- the film works as a surreal journey into the dark reaches of the imagination as well as a highly proficient psychological horror film.

#8 The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974, dir. Tobe Hooper)

A classic. The first is the best movie of the series and i still think it's as powerful as it ever was. The exploits of the Hewitt family's first outing is still memorable and frightening and easily exceeds any contemporary horror movie, the recent remake and prequel included. A tour de force in low-budget high impact cinema.

#9 Saw (2004, dir. James Wan)


A fantastic horror/thriller expertly crafted by young and talented director James Wan, co-written by himself and Leigh Wannel who stars. Simple and highly effective with a fantastic twist making it one of the best horror films of the past 10 years as well as the most successful horror franchises of recent years. They should definitely end the saga now as i feel it's reached it's peak but it still never fails to pleasantly surprise me. The king of the genre which is now referred to as "torture porn".

#10 Silent Hill (2006, dir. Chrisophe Gans)


As a huge fan of the video games i thought this movie nailed it completely. It's slick, well directed and the visuals are sublime- every frame a work of art. It works well as a game adaptation but i also feel it works great as a stand alone movie. Paul Anderson, take note. THIS is how to successfully adapt a video game.

Honourable Mentions:

A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984, dir. Wes Craven)


I love this film but I really can't get it to fit into this top 10! It deserves it's place somewhere higher, and maybe I will come back to the list and re-evaluate it so it can accomapny this classic. We Craven gives us a classic tale of child molsetor Freddy Kruger who has come to haunt the dreams of Elm Street's teenagers as he exacts revenge for the parents who murdered him as well as having some fun in his own sick and depraved way. The first is obviously the best in the series though a few of the sequels are also very good. Rober Englund gives the performance of his entire career as the iconic Freddy and Heather Lagenkamp cements herself as princess of 80s horror scream teens. An original and respected work of 80s horror brilliance- it may be cheesy in parts now but it's still a great watch!

Alien (1979. dir. Ridley Scott)


Another classic horror film which needs to be put higher in the list but again I can't seem to figure out where or even if this is the right genre for it, even though it is, it's both horror and sci-fi and does both genres really well. A fantastic film which hasn't aged in it's scared at all- I watched it recently and still found parts of it to be genuinly creepy, especially with the claustrohphiba and expert directing (lighting, choreography, design and intense acting all make it a suspensful journey into ou deepest fears of space and extra-terrestrial life). It's still one of the best out there and it's got it.